Permutation city

permutation city

Roman Greg Egan. die zukunft” Titel der Originalausgabe PERMUTATION CITY Aus dem australischen Englisch von. sandberg-chiropractic.nu Übersicht · ◅◅ | ◅ | | | | | Science-Fiction-Jahr | | . Cyber City, , Permutation City, Greg Egan · Rezension. Permutation City: A Novel | Greg Egan | ISBN: | Kostenloser Versand für alle Bücher mit Versand und Verkauf duch Amazon. Egan gehört damit zu den Autoren, die sich stark mit dem Posthumanismus auseinandersetzen. Weiter einkaufen Kasse Weiter einkaufen. Leseprobe jetzt öffnen Leseprobe gespeichert Leseprobe speichern Kurzbeschreibung anschauen. Mehr lesen Weniger v-slot. The introduction mobile deutsch interesting and the pace picks up from there and never slows down. Bis Beste Spielothek in Edlmannsberg finden er hauptberuflich als Programmierer. Seit seinem schriftstellerischen Durchbruch mit Quarantine dt.

A dabble in murder at a few points You'd think with the hypothetical creation of a few entire worlds Greg would've given us some thicker vegetables to grow in the fertile land of cyberspace and software programs.

These guys are living in the reality that only gods dream of where anything can happen. Some things do, but not enough for me.

Awww, jeez I'm bummed. Ya know, I read that first chapter about 2 years ago at a library and thought to myself for the next 12 months "I really have to track that puppy down and read it!

The intro chapter is great. There's some swell parts in the book, but over all hmmm. Give me "Distress" again. That's the book I could hold up like a light in the darkness of volcano ash.

Not my bag all that hypothesizing stuff Egan loves to brain fart with. Copies form the conceptual spine of the story, and much of the plot deals directly with the "lived" experience of Copies, most of whom are copies of wealthy billionaires suffering terminal illnesses or fatal accidents, who spend their existences in VR worlds of their creating, usually maintained by trust funds , which independently own and operate large computing resources for their sakes, separated physically and economically from most of the rest of the world's computing power, which is privatized as a fungible commodity.

Although the wealthiest copies face no financial difficulties, they can still be threatened because copies lack political and legal rights they are considered software , especially where the global economy is in recession.

Hence they cannot afford to retreat into solipsism and ignore what is happening in the real world. At the opposite end from the wealthy Copies are those who can only afford to live in the virtual equivalent of "Slums", being bounced around the globe to the cheapest physical computing available at any given time in order to save money, while running at much slower speeds compared to the wealthy Copies.

Their slowdown rate depends on how much computer power their meager assets can afford, as computer power is traded on a global exchange and goes to the highest bidder at any point in time.

When they cannot afford to be "run" at all, they can be frozen as a "snapshot" until computer power is relatively affordable again.

By creating this scenario, Egan postulates a world where economic inequality can persist even in one's virtual afterlife. The concept of solipsism is also examined prominently, with many less-wealthy Copies attending social functions called Slow Clubs, where socialising Copies agree to synchronise with the slowest person present.

Many of these less-wealthy Copies become completely deracinated from their former lives and from world events, or else become Witnesses , who spend their time observing at considerable time lapse world events unfold, at the cost of any meaningful relationships with their fellow Copies.

Egan's later novels Diaspora and Schild's Ladder deal with related issues from other perspectives. The plot of Permutation City follows the lives of several people in a near future reality where the Earth is ravaged by the effects of climate change, the economy and culture are largely globalised, and civilisation has accumulated vast amounts of cloud computing power and memory which is distributed internationally and is traded in a public market called the QIPS Exchange Quadrillion Instructions Per Second, see MIPS.

Most importantly, this great computing capacity has enabled the creation of Copies, whole brain emulations of "scanned" humans which are detailed enough to allow for subjective conscious experience on the part of the emulation.

Scanning has become safe enough and common enough to allow for a few wealthy or dedicated humans to afford to create backups of themselves.

Copies do not yet possess human rights under the laws of any nation or international body. In , Paul Durham, a Sydney man having experimented on Copies of himself, offers wealthy Copies prime real estate in an advanced supercomputer which, according to his pitch, will never be shut down and never experience any slowdown whatsoever.

Durham predicts that efforts to utilise chaotic effects will clash with Copy rights, as both Copies and weather simulations will demand increasing QIPS Exchange shares.

All that each Copy must do is to make the comparatively small investment of two million ecus in order to bring Durham's fantasy computer into existence.

Durham hires Maria Deluca, an Autoverse enthusiast, to design an Autoverse program which, given a powerful enough computer, could generate a planet's worth of evolvable Autoverse life.

He also clandestinely commissions a famous virtual reality architect, Malcolm Carter, to build a full scale VR city; outside of Durham's knowledge, Carter secretly hacks two Slum-dwelling Solipsist Nation Copies Peer and Kate into this city's machine code.

When Maria learns of a computer fraud investigation on Durham, she confronts him. Durham reveals that his self-experiments convinced him that there is no difference, even in principle, between physics and mathematics, and that all mathematically possible structures exist, among them our physics and therefore our spacetime, a belief he refers to as "Dust Theory".

The dust theory implies that all possible universes exist and are equally real, emerging spontaneously from their own mathematical self-consistency.

In fact, it was so over my head the first time I gave up in defeat. Then it started to bother me - such mind-boggling ideas were worth another attempt.

So I listened to the book again and…I think I got some of it. The final third of the book is still beyond my comprehension, but the first two thirds present two carefully-described ideas that are worth examining - Dust Theory and the TVC universe.

If so, read on. Permutation City details attempts in the midst century to create an artificial universe based in the Autoverse, a computer-generated environment where digital copies of wealthy people can enjoy a limited form of immortality in virtual reality.

Most books would be content to go with that, but Egan is just getting started. Mysterious entrepreneur Paul Durham is pitching to aging millionaires a far-superior and more secure version of the Autoverse, and also hires solo programmer Maria to create a digital simulation of the early conditions on Earth that gave rise to life.

He is stingy with the details, but Maria needs the money to help her ailing mother, so she signs on. But each time he makes a copy, they choose to terminate themselves almost immediately.

This bears a superficial resemblance to Robert J. To an outside observer, these ten seconds had been ground up into ten thousand uncorrelated moments and scattered throughout real time - and in model time, the outside world had suffered an equivalent fate.

Yet the pattern of his awareness remained perfectly intact: Somehow - on their own terms - the pieces remained connected.

Imagine a universe entirely without structure, without shape, without connections. A cloud of microscopic events, like fragments of space-time … except that there is no space or time.

What characterizes one point in space, for one instant? Just the values of the fundamental particle fields, just a handful of numbers.

A cloud of random numbers. Is your mind completely blown at this point? I had to read this through these passages several times, attempting to process them.

Only by transcribing this was I able to grasp the idea. It may be completely outlandish, but I give Egan kudos for sheer daring. It is a variant of quantum mechanics, but goes a full step beyond that by postulating that the universe can and does take shape from pure randomness each and every moment of our subjective existence.

What was he taking when he came up with that? He labels this bizarre concept Dust Theory, and this forms the foundations for an even more dazzling idea, that of the Turing-von Neumann-Chiang TVC universe.

Again, this is subject matter enough for another book itself. The only way to explain this is to quote Egan again at length: After Turing, von Neumann and Chiang.

That leaves plenty of room for data within easy reach. In two dimensions, the original von Neumann machine had to reach further and further - and wait longer and longer - for each successive bit of data.

In a six-dimensional TVC automaton, you can have a three-dimensional grid of computers, which keeps on growing indefinitely - each with its own three-dimensional memory, which can also grow without bound.

Maria could almost see it: By this point Egan had either excited computer science and quantum physics geeks into paroxysms of pure ecstasy, or driven liberal arts majors running screaming in the other direction.

The question arises of whether the TVC universe is infinite or will collapse from entropy as most theorists expect of our own universe.

The TVC universe will never collapse. A hundred billion years, a hundred trillion; it makes no difference, it will always be expanding.

Entropy is not a problem. Stretching ordinary space increases entropy; everything becomes more spread out, more disordered.

Building more of a TVC cellular automaton just gives you more room for data, more computing power, more order. The fate of the TVC automaton would only have to make internal sense - and the thing would have no reason, ever, to come to an end.

In Part Two, the story jumps forward in time, to after the TVC universe, now commonly known as Elysium, has been created and six thousand years have passed internally.

Moreover, the artificial life that Maria set the initial conditions of, called Autobacterium Lamberti, has gone through billions of years of virtual evolution using the unlimited computing power of the TVC universe, resulting in an entirely new intelligent species.

They are insect-like, group-minded, and increasingly inquisitive about their world. However, they are unaware of the creators, humanity, or that their world was created by artificially.

As they start to investigate the founding principles of their world, Paul Durham and Maria become concerned that their experiments will threaten the fundamental principals of the TVC universe, due to a very byzantine thought process that suggests, to the best of my understanding, that it is the understanding of a given universe and its physical laws and properties that determine those laws and properties.

So as the Lambertians begin to examine their world more closely, they are undermining the laws set in the Garden-of-Eden configuration.

Here are some excerpts: I think the TVC rules are being undermined - or subsumed into something larger. Do you know why I chose the Autoverse in the first place - instead of real-world physics?

Easier to seed with life. No explanation for the origin of the elements. It never occurred to me that they might miss the laws that we know are laws, and circumvent the whole problem.

They might still come up with a cellular automaton model - complete with the need for a creator. If they successfully explain their origins in a way which contradicts the Autoverse rules, then that may distort the TVC rules.

Perhaps only in the region where the Autoverse is run - or perhaps everywhere. Will it guess correctly? Or make up its own explanations, religious or otherwise.

Flipping the perspective from the created to the creator is just one of the many mind-expanding ideas that Egan seems to have in endless supply.

It was pretty difficult to follow this part, even after two listens, but if you could understand Dust Theory and the TVC universe, then perhaps this will make sense to you as well.

While many books may have more entertaining characters or plots, Permutation City is one of the most ambitious explorations of digital consciousness, artificial life, and the fundamental assumptions behind our quantum universe that I have ever encountered.

Notes on the Audible version: Just as he was for Quarantine, narrator Adam Epstein really is hopeless, especially his atrocious Australian, German, Italian, Russian, and Chinese accents.

Sometimes I was reduced to tears of laughter hearing how awful they were. It makes me wonder if he modeled his accents on the bad guys in action movies.

He also regularly mispronounced words. I still might not fully understand it, but at least I can do better accents.

View all 7 comments. Jul 29, Bradley rated it really liked it Shelves: What starts and ends as a basic search for immortality as data, as in uploading perfect copies of yourself to cheat death indefinitely, makes this novel a rather focused utopian novel.

Not that things are all rosy, of course, but that it's the search for utopia, or heaven on earth, that drives the characters here.

Distinctions get very hazy between real and real. When the universe is math and math is the universe, a perfect copy as data will have no real difference with everything we have.

C What starts and ends as a basic search for immortality as data, as in uploading perfect copies of yourself to cheat death indefinitely, makes this novel a rather focused utopian novel.

Change some basic laws, add new elements, ramp up your perceptions or slow them way down. It doesn't really matter. Create a universe that is self-evolving, have it compete with itself and all the parts within it, run a simulation of Life, and turn Darwinism and Game Theory upon data elements.

It's evolution in data. And when you can live thousands of years working out all the kinks in your programming in a few eyeblinks in that boring other reality, why not go all the way and live forever for real, speeding up and slowing down within the actual universe, give yourself robot waldos, meet new neighbors We're already the running software platform in our own universe, after all.

Matter doesn't really exist anyway. We're running on an encoded holographic universe. This novel just flips the concept in a mirror and spells out what we might need to do to survive.

Sure, we've seen this concept done many times now, but look at the date here. The denizens of Permutation City seem to be doing it right.

Yes, there's a good story and good characters, too, but in its heart, this is definitely a utopian novel.

I really miss those. Oct 27, Erik rated it it was amazing Shelves: How do you define 'science fiction'? From a quote from an interview with sci-fi author Ted Chiang: It is supposed to be How do you define 'science fiction'?

It is supposed to be largely about exploring the boundaries of knowledge, he says. Science fiction is the fiction of ideas. As soon as you have an idea that changes some small part of the world you are writing science fiction.

It is always the art of the possible, never the impossible. I consider that an objective assessment. The ideas about which he writes are outstandingly imaginative, yet never seem impossible.

That differential is why I consider him objectively the greatest. Because, sure, I've read science fiction with more outlandish ideas, and I've read science fiction that did a better job of convincing me of the possibility of its plot and setting.

But I've never read and I doubt such exists science fiction with SUCH outlandish ideas that nevertheless still seemed possible. I'm tempted to say, "It's pure magic.

Alas, as I wrote in Diaspora , Greg Egan is not for everyone. This is because Egan's books look at some theory or idea in physics and ask, "What does it mean?

Two fundamental forces gravity and electromagnetism that are otherwise quite different have such similar equations! When I encountered this in my first physics class, it blew my mind.

Surely such a coincidence suggests some underlying unity to the universe? However, the most interesting ideas — the ones that Greg Egan explores — arise from more modern physics, such as quantum mechanics and relativity.

So let's talk about a theory that assuredly influenced Egan's writing of Permutation City: Quantum Electrodynamic's 'Sum-over-possibilities' approach.

Suppose I want to know whether some particle which starts at A will end up at point B and what path it will take. In classical physics, I can say yes or no depending on some relatively simple maths.

But in quantum mechanics, at best I can tell you the probability of it happening. There are infinite ways to do so, yeah? Electron can go straight from A to B.

Or he can take make a pit-stop at the ice-cream-photon stand at point C to eat some mint chocolate chip photon-cream.

Or he can take a little vacation 2. Now with calculus the math of infinities , we can do this calculation. Since particles and even larger molecules behave as waves, these various possible paths interfere with each other and parts of them cancel out.

What remains is the actual path the particle ends up taking. Which is just, wow, kinda awesome, yeah? Electron really does travel to Andromeda, and maybe all these infinite universes influence each other in some way.

Could there then be some meta-universe or at least some metaphysical rules that must be obeyed in these inter-universe interactions?

What might this meta-universe be like then? What might those metaphysical rules be? This is what Greg Egan does. Suppose there really were infinite universes.

How would people discover the truth? And what effect would that discovery have on them? And how do I write this so it sounds actually plausible?

And I can give you Permutation City in a nutshell too: It asks the question, "Suppose every possible logically coherent permutation of reality actually did exist.

How would someone find this out? And, finding it out, what would they do with this knowledge? The first problem, to summarize, is that if you don't know any higher-level physics or mathematics, you probably haven't done any of these metaphysical thought experiments yourself, so you're not gonna geek out as much that someone actually bothered to turn them into a story.

The second is this: Greg Egan writes hard science fiction. This isn't without reason. So really consciousness is the result of unicorns defecating rainbows.

The math and science Greg Egan invokes in his writing are necessary language to communicate his ideas in a compelling manner.

More specifically, Permutation City focuses on exploring one possible model of consciousness and reality, the Logic of the Dust Theory of reality, or simply Dust Theory , similar to the Ultimate Ensemble Mathematical Universe hypothesis proposed by Max Tegmark.

Like some other works of contemporary science fiction, it begins with the assumption that human consciousness is Turing computable: Specifically, the book deals with some possible consequences of human consciousness being amenable to mathematical manipulation, as well as some possible consequences of simulated realities.

In this way, Egan attempts to deconstruct not only some standard notions of self, memory, and mortality, but also of physical reality.

Over the course of the story, Egan gradually elaborates the Logic of the Dust Theory of reality, the implications of which form the premise for much of the story's intrigue.

The story explores these ideas through a variety of avenues. One is that of the Autoverse , an artificial life simulator ultimately based on a cellular automaton complex enough to represent the substratum of an artificial chemistry.

The Autoverse is a deterministic chemistry set, internally consistent and vaguely resembling real chemistry, but with only thirty-two elements and no nuclear analogue.

In the novel, tiny environments, simulated in the Autoverse and filled with small populations of a simple, designed lifeform, Autobacterium lamberti , are maintained by a dwindling community of enthusiasts obsessed with getting A.

Another venue for these explorations is VR, virtual realities making extensive use of patchwork heuristics to simulate, crudely , completely immersive and convincing physical environments, albeit at a maximum of seventeen times slower than "real" time, the limit to the optical crystal computing technology used at the time of the story.

Larger VR environments, covering a greater internal volume in greater detail, are cost prohibitive even though VR worlds are computed selectively for inhabitants, reducing redundancy and extraneous objects and places to the minimum details required to provide a convincing experience to those inhabitants, e.

Within the story, " Copies ", digital renderings of human brains with complete subjective consciousness, the technical descendants of ever more comprehensive medical simulations, live within VR environments after a process of "scanning".

Copies are the only objects within VR environments that are completely mathematically internally consistent, everything else being the product of varying levels of generalisation, lossy compression , and hashing at all times.

Copies form the conceptual spine of the story, and much of the plot deals directly with the "lived" experience of Copies, most of whom are the survivors of wealthy billionaires suffering terminal illnesses or fatal accidents, who spend their existences in VR worlds of their creating, usually maintained by trust funds which independently own and operate large computing resources for their sakes, separated physically and economically from most of the rest of the world's computing power, which is privatised as a fungible commodity.

In this way, Egan also deals with the socioeconomic realities of life as a Copy the global economy of the novel is in recession and Copies often lose their vital assets , many of the less wealthy of whom live in " the Slums ", a euphemism for the state of being bounced around the globe to the cheapest physical computing available at any given time in order to save money.

Many such lower-and-middle-class Copies exist at considerable "slowdown" relative to "real" time or even optimum Copy time, in order to save further money by allowing themselves to be computed momentarily from place to place and saved in suspension for cheap in the meantime.

Through this, the concept of solipsism is examined prominently, with many lower-and-middle-class Copies attending social functions called Slow Clubs, where socialising Copies agree to synchronise with the slowest person present.

Further Egan novels which deal with these issues from various other perspectives include Diaspora and Schild's Ladder.

The plot of Permutation City follows the lives of several people in a near future reality where the Earth is ravaged by the effects of climate change, the economy and culture are largely globalised the most commonly used denomination of currency is the ecu, from the word ecumen , a Greek root meaning 'the inhabited world' , and civilisation has accumulated vast amounts of ubiquitous computing power and memory which is distributed internationally and is traded in a public market called the QIPS Exchange QIPS from MIPS , where the Q is Quadrillions.

Most importantly, from the perspective of the story, this great computing capacity is used to construct physiological models of patients for medical purposes, reducing the need for actual medical experimentation and enabling personalised medical treatments, but also enabling the creation of Copies, whole brain emulations of "scanned" humans which are detailed enough to allow for subjective conscious experience on the part of the emulation.

Although not yet in widespread usage, scanning has become safe enough and common enough to allow for a subset of wealthy or dedicated humans to afford to create backups of themselves, generally with the intention of surviving the biological deaths of their bodies.

A minority of Copies exist, though they are largely perceived with some justification as being a collection of the thanatophobic eccentric rich.

Copies do not yet possess human rights under the laws of any nation or international body, although a subgroup of the wealthiest Copies, those still involved with their own estates or businesses, finance a powerful lobby and public relations effort to advance the Copy rights cause.

To this effect, the legal status of Copies is viewed as somewhat farcical even by sceptics of the cause, and many expect full Copy rights to be granted in Europe within two decades.

The plotline travels back and forth between the years of and , and deals with events surrounding the life of a Sydney man named Paul Durham, who is obsessed with experimenting on Copies of himself because he believes Copies of himself should be more willing to undergo experimentation.

In the latter time frame, Durham is revealed to be, apparently, a con artist of some type, who travels around the world visiting rich Copies and offering them prime real estate in some sort of advanced supercomputer which, according to his pitch, will never be shut down and will be powerful enough to support any number of Copies in VR environments of their own designing at no slowdown whatsoever, no matter how preposterously opulent those environments might be.

He pitches this concept to the Copies, predicated upon the prediction that the Copy rights movement might run into resistance due to devastating climate change.

As the world undergoes increasingly extreme and erratic weather, a variety of international bodies, especially the Association of Southeast Asian Nations , which has been particularly hard-hit by tropical storms, have proposed projects to use their vast computing resources to attempt to intervene, utilising chaotic effects to their advantage, in global weather patterns with such precision as to minimise weather-related destruction while also minimising the scale of the efforts necessary to do so.

Durham predicts this will clash with the spread of Copy rights, as both Copies and weather simulations will demand increasing QIPS Exchange shares in the future.

All that each Copy must do is to make the laughably small investment of two million ecus in order to bring Durham's fantasy computer into existence.

As part of his plot, Durham hires Maria Deluca, a nearly destitute Autoverse enthusiast, recently mildly famous for developing a variety of A.

Since no such computer exists, Durham attempts to convince Maria that he is a wealthy Autoverse enthusiast interested in her evolvability results and looking for a proof of concept for a much larger system.

He also clandestinely commissions a famous virtual reality architect, Malcolm Carter, to build a full scale, high resolution VR city, Permutation City, the largest VR environment ever conceived, complete with reactive crowds and a staggering variety of full scale, high resolution scenic views.

As computer fraud investigators begin to close in on Durham's scheme, Maria becomes implicated and is pressed into covertly gathering evidence in order to incriminate Durham; however, she comes to doubt her commitments as she learns more about Durham himself, including his time spent in psychiatric care and his callous experimentation on his own Copies, as well as his assiduously reticent Copy backers.

Meanwhile, two Slum-dwelling Solipsist Nation Copies, Peer and Kate, explore their post-human existences as well as their strained but loving relationship, until Kate's long-time friend Malcolm Carter offers to secretly hack them both, along with any moderately-sized software packages they wish, into Permutation City's machine code , guaranteeing them a place in the city were it ever to run, but permanently debarring them from manipulating the city's implementation for fear of being deleted as extraneous cruft by automated software.

If you like philosophy and can handle abstract arguments that make mincemeet of common sense but aren't absurd you will like this book.

If you want an emotional soap opera or you stop listening as soon as people talk about abstract things like math or philosophy don't even bother reading the blurb on the back.

Apr 24, Tim rated it liked it Shelves: I should probably have read Egan's bio before buying this: Often dialogue consisted of one character taking on the role of the author explaining to a less well informed character the reader how the science or technology worked and I found this method very wooden.

Often the very long-winded technical details of what was going on went completely over my head. There was also a lack of human warmth or even interest in the novel.

At times it read more like a manual than a novel. The story only really begins in the last fifty pages and finally, when I was hooked, the novel ended!

Jul 05, Stuart rated it really liked it Shelves: Bursting with ideas about artificial life, virtual realities, digital consciousness, etc Originally posted at Fantasy Literature Permutation City won the John W.

It is a very dense, in-depth examination of digital vs. Yeah, pretty intimidating stuff. In fact, it was so ov Permutation City: In fact, it was so over my head the first time I gave up in defeat.

Then it started to bother me - such mind-boggling ideas were worth another attempt. So I listened to the book again and…I think I got some of it.

The final third of the book is still beyond my comprehension, but the first two thirds present two carefully-described ideas that are worth examining - Dust Theory and the TVC universe.

If so, read on. Permutation City details attempts in the midst century to create an artificial universe based in the Autoverse, a computer-generated environment where digital copies of wealthy people can enjoy a limited form of immortality in virtual reality.

Most books would be content to go with that, but Egan is just getting started. Mysterious entrepreneur Paul Durham is pitching to aging millionaires a far-superior and more secure version of the Autoverse, and also hires solo programmer Maria to create a digital simulation of the early conditions on Earth that gave rise to life.

He is stingy with the details, but Maria needs the money to help her ailing mother, so she signs on. But each time he makes a copy, they choose to terminate themselves almost immediately.

This bears a superficial resemblance to Robert J. To an outside observer, these ten seconds had been ground up into ten thousand uncorrelated moments and scattered throughout real time - and in model time, the outside world had suffered an equivalent fate.

Yet the pattern of his awareness remained perfectly intact: Somehow - on their own terms - the pieces remained connected. Imagine a universe entirely without structure, without shape, without connections.

A cloud of microscopic events, like fragments of space-time … except that there is no space or time. What characterizes one point in space, for one instant?

Just the values of the fundamental particle fields, just a handful of numbers. A cloud of random numbers. Is your mind completely blown at this point?

I had to read this through these passages several times, attempting to process them. Only by transcribing this was I able to grasp the idea.

It may be completely outlandish, but I give Egan kudos for sheer daring. It is a variant of quantum mechanics, but goes a full step beyond that by postulating that the universe can and does take shape from pure randomness each and every moment of our subjective existence.

What was he taking when he came up with that? He labels this bizarre concept Dust Theory, and this forms the foundations for an even more dazzling idea, that of the Turing-von Neumann-Chiang TVC universe.

Again, this is subject matter enough for another book itself. The only way to explain this is to quote Egan again at length: After Turing, von Neumann and Chiang.

That leaves plenty of room for data within easy reach. In two dimensions, the original von Neumann machine had to reach further and further - and wait longer and longer - for each successive bit of data.

In a six-dimensional TVC automaton, you can have a three-dimensional grid of computers, which keeps on growing indefinitely - each with its own three-dimensional memory, which can also grow without bound.

Maria could almost see it: By this point Egan had either excited computer science and quantum physics geeks into paroxysms of pure ecstasy, or driven liberal arts majors running screaming in the other direction.

The question arises of whether the TVC universe is infinite or will collapse from entropy as most theorists expect of our own universe. The TVC universe will never collapse.

A hundred billion years, a hundred trillion; it makes no difference, it will always be expanding. Entropy is not a problem.

Stretching ordinary space increases entropy; everything becomes more spread out, more disordered. Building more of a TVC cellular automaton just gives you more room for data, more computing power, more order.

The fate of the TVC automaton would only have to make internal sense - and the thing would have no reason, ever, to come to an end.

In Part Two, the story jumps forward in time, to after the TVC universe, now commonly known as Elysium, has been created and six thousand years have passed internally.

Moreover, the artificial life that Maria set the initial conditions of, called Autobacterium Lamberti, has gone through billions of years of virtual evolution using the unlimited computing power of the TVC universe, resulting in an entirely new intelligent species.

They are insect-like, group-minded, and increasingly inquisitive about their world. However, they are unaware of the creators, humanity, or that their world was created by artificially.

As they start to investigate the founding principles of their world, Paul Durham and Maria become concerned that their experiments will threaten the fundamental principals of the TVC universe, due to a very byzantine thought process that suggests, to the best of my understanding, that it is the understanding of a given universe and its physical laws and properties that determine those laws and properties.

So as the Lambertians begin to examine their world more closely, they are undermining the laws set in the Garden-of-Eden configuration.

Here are some excerpts: I think the TVC rules are being undermined - or subsumed into something larger.

Do you know why I chose the Autoverse in the first place - instead of real-world physics? Easier to seed with life. No explanation for the origin of the elements.

It never occurred to me that they might miss the laws that we know are laws, and circumvent the whole problem. They might still come up with a cellular automaton model - complete with the need for a creator.

If they successfully explain their origins in a way which contradicts the Autoverse rules, then that may distort the TVC rules.

Perhaps only in the region where the Autoverse is run - or perhaps everywhere. Will it guess correctly?

Or make up its own explanations, religious or otherwise. Flipping the perspective from the created to the creator is just one of the many mind-expanding ideas that Egan seems to have in endless supply.

It was pretty difficult to follow this part, even after two listens, but if you could understand Dust Theory and the TVC universe, then perhaps this will make sense to you as well.

While many books may have more entertaining characters or plots, Permutation City is one of the most ambitious explorations of digital consciousness, artificial life, and the fundamental assumptions behind our quantum universe that I have ever encountered.

Notes on the Audible version: Just as he was for Quarantine, narrator Adam Epstein really is hopeless, especially his atrocious Australian, German, Italian, Russian, and Chinese accents.

Sometimes I was reduced to tears of laughter hearing how awful they were. It makes me wonder if he modeled his accents on the bad guys in action movies.

He also regularly mispronounced words. I still might not fully understand it, but at least I can do better accents. View all 7 comments.

Jul 29, Bradley rated it really liked it Shelves: What starts and ends as a basic search for immortality as data, as in uploading perfect copies of yourself to cheat death indefinitely, makes this novel a rather focused utopian novel.

Not that things are all rosy, of course, but that it's the search for utopia, or heaven on earth, that drives the characters here.

Distinctions get very hazy between real and real. When the universe is math and math is the universe, a perfect copy as data will have no real difference with everything we have.

C What starts and ends as a basic search for immortality as data, as in uploading perfect copies of yourself to cheat death indefinitely, makes this novel a rather focused utopian novel.

Change some basic laws, add new elements, ramp up your perceptions or slow them way down. It doesn't really matter. Create a universe that is self-evolving, have it compete with itself and all the parts within it, run a simulation of Life, and turn Darwinism and Game Theory upon data elements.

It's evolution in data. And when you can live thousands of years working out all the kinks in your programming in a few eyeblinks in that boring other reality, why not go all the way and live forever for real, speeding up and slowing down within the actual universe, give yourself robot waldos, meet new neighbors We're already the running software platform in our own universe, after all.

Matter doesn't really exist anyway. We're running on an encoded holographic universe. This novel just flips the concept in a mirror and spells out what we might need to do to survive.

Sure, we've seen this concept done many times now, but look at the date here. The denizens of Permutation City seem to be doing it right.

Yes, there's a good story and good characters, too, but in its heart, this is definitely a utopian novel. I really miss those.

Oct 27, Erik rated it it was amazing Shelves: How do you define 'science fiction'? From a quote from an interview with sci-fi author Ted Chiang: It is supposed to be How do you define 'science fiction'?

It is supposed to be largely about exploring the boundaries of knowledge, he says. Science fiction is the fiction of ideas. As soon as you have an idea that changes some small part of the world you are writing science fiction.

It is always the art of the possible, never the impossible. I consider that an objective assessment. The ideas about which he writes are outstandingly imaginative, yet never seem impossible.

That differential is why I consider him objectively the greatest. Because, sure, I've read science fiction with more outlandish ideas, and I've read science fiction that did a better job of convincing me of the possibility of its plot and setting.

But I've never read and I doubt such exists science fiction with SUCH outlandish ideas that nevertheless still seemed possible.

I'm tempted to say, "It's pure magic. Alas, as I wrote in Diaspora , Greg Egan is not for everyone. This is because Egan's books look at some theory or idea in physics and ask, "What does it mean?

Two fundamental forces gravity and electromagnetism that are otherwise quite different have such similar equations!

When I encountered this in my first physics class, it blew my mind. Surely such a coincidence suggests some underlying unity to the universe?

However, the most interesting ideas — the ones that Greg Egan explores — arise from more modern physics, such as quantum mechanics and relativity.

So let's talk about a theory that assuredly influenced Egan's writing of Permutation City: Quantum Electrodynamic's 'Sum-over-possibilities' approach.

Suppose I want to know whether some particle which starts at A will end up at point B and what path it will take.

In classical physics, I can say yes or no depending on some relatively simple maths. But in quantum mechanics, at best I can tell you the probability of it happening.

There are infinite ways to do so, yeah? Electron can go straight from A to B. Or he can take make a pit-stop at the ice-cream-photon stand at point C to eat some mint chocolate chip photon-cream.

Or he can take a little vacation 2. Now with calculus the math of infinities , we can do this calculation. Since particles and even larger molecules behave as waves, these various possible paths interfere with each other and parts of them cancel out.

What remains is the actual path the particle ends up taking. Which is just, wow, kinda awesome, yeah? Electron really does travel to Andromeda, and maybe all these infinite universes influence each other in some way.

Could there then be some meta-universe or at least some metaphysical rules that must be obeyed in these inter-universe interactions?

What might this meta-universe be like then? What might those metaphysical rules be? This is what Greg Egan does. Suppose there really were infinite universes.

How would people discover the truth? And what effect would that discovery have on them? And how do I write this so it sounds actually plausible?

And I can give you Permutation City in a nutshell too: It asks the question, "Suppose every possible logically coherent permutation of reality actually did exist.

How would someone find this out? And, finding it out, what would they do with this knowledge? The first problem, to summarize, is that if you don't know any higher-level physics or mathematics, you probably haven't done any of these metaphysical thought experiments yourself, so you're not gonna geek out as much that someone actually bothered to turn them into a story.

The second is this: Greg Egan writes hard science fiction. This isn't without reason. So really consciousness is the result of unicorns defecating rainbows.

The math and science Greg Egan invokes in his writing are necessary language to communicate his ideas in a compelling manner. They are as necessary as the rules of English.

His stories seem real. And that which is real is usually more beautiful than that which is not. He shows the legal issues involved.

Does a Copy have the same rights as an organic human being? There's several poignant interactions between one of the main characters and her mother, who is resistant to the idea of becoming an immortal Copy even when faced with her death.

So, the humanity isn't lost in a swarm of technical details, as sometimes happens with science fiction. May 19, Bruce rated it it was amazing Shelves: Rereading this book 15 years later reminds me why I still bother reading Egan's books, despite very lukewarm experiences like his more recent Zendegi.

Why hasn't this been reprinted? This book crackles and hums with ideas that are not just brilliant within their own context, but ask deep questions about our existence.

The extrapolation of these ideas is solid and well meshed with the unique and intriguing plot. Egan is at the to Rereading this book 15 years later reminds me why I still bother reading Egan's books, despite very lukewarm experiences like his more recent Zendegi.

Egan is at the top of his form here, banging out compelling world building characterizations in a couple of pages as he introduces side characters to build the number of perspectives for the unfolding of his vision.

My one caveat is that it might take a certain level of a certain kind of intelligence to understand the central conceit of the novel.

By the same token, if you can grok it, I predict you will just love it to pieces, because hard pressed to find anything this profound, engaging and well written with that lovely sci-fi adventure flavor anywhere.

For me the conflict driving the last quarter of the novel and the justifications for some of the actions of the characters are a bit less solid than the majority of the book, but it too picks up steam after a shaky start.

The last section feels slightly tacked on after a solid but perhaps not entirely salutary ending of the main portion of the narrative.

By the way, this is an entirely stand-alone book which has nothing in common with the other books in the "subjective cosmology cycle" except a portion of an author's career.

Aug 10, alphyna rated it it was amazing Shelves: Jul 23, Jason Pettus rated it liked it Shelves: There's a running joke throughout Greg Egan's Permutation City that neatly encapsulates both all the good things and all the bad things about the book in general.

Namely, a TV show has recently been created in their day-after-tomorrow world that was specifically designed to sell the just-invented concept of virtual reality to the mouth-breathing masses, a show that's been deliberately dumbed down to make it more palpable to the slack-jawed yokels, in which crazy fantastical things are alway There's a running joke throughout Greg Egan's Permutation City that neatly encapsulates both all the good things and all the bad things about the book in general.

Namely, a TV show has recently been created in their day-after-tomorrow world that was specifically designed to sell the just-invented concept of virtual reality to the mouth-breathing masses, a show that's been deliberately dumbed down to make it more palpable to the slack-jawed yokels, in which crazy fantastical things are always happening within a virtual space that doesn't even begin to conform to reality, which for anyone familiar with this period in sci-fi history is very, very clearly Egan poking fun of the other cyberpunk novels of those early-'90s years that got a lot more famous than his, like William Gibson's Neuromancer and Neal Stephenson's Snow Crash.

But in the actual virtual reality that all the smart, rich people in Egan's universe actually do inhabit, the ultimate goal is for the virtual world to match the boring real world as exactly as possible, and the most excited anyone ever gets is when their avatars count out loud from one to ten to check the lag between their time and our own.

Or to quote The Simpsons: I think that's great, I want there to be no mistake, and I'm glad that these kinds of books exist for all those science-oriented readers who get frustrated by the "soft" sci-fi books that tend to be the big bestsellers of the genre and have much more of an impact on the general culture.

If you ever want to cause an aneurysm in a hard sci-fi fan, ask them for their opinion on Star Wars. But that said, hard sci-fi is generally not really my cup of tea -- in fact, I doubt I would've ever read this unless it had been recommended by a new friend of mine in Chicago, fellow hard sci-fi author Jeremy John -- and as a result I found Permutation City to be only a bit above mediocre, with a central premise revolving around quantum mechanics and multidimensional consciousness that might as well have been freaking Hogwarts, as little as I could keep up with the high-level real science being bandied about.

Unfortunately for hard sci-fi authors, most of us are never going to consider it a thrilling climax when a group of scientists flip a switch, stare at some dots on a computer screen, perform some calculations, then excitedly declare, "It worked!

And despite his publisher's best efforts to "sex up" this story, through the cyberpunk-looking cover art and a tagline that has absolutely nothing to do with the actual plot "Ten Million People On A Chip!

It should all be kept in mind before picking up a copy yourself. May 29, B. This is a tough book to evaluate.

The characters are two dimensional exposition machines, the prose is largely utilitarian, and even the plot is pretty flimsy.

Further, the conceit at the heart of the novel and the fulcrum for all of the action is a theory the so-called "dust theory" that is ridiculous balderdash and, if taken seriously, basically an excuse for moral heinousness.

However, the book is also an amazingly thoughtful rumination on the philosophical and psychological issues that w This is a tough book to evaluate.

However, the book is also an amazingly thoughtful rumination on the philosophical and psychological issues that would arise with translating our consciousness onto a computer substrate.

Egan evaluates the challenges that would arise if you were able to copy yourself, personality, memories, and all, into a virtual world in a computer, and how that copy would interact with your original meat version, how the copy would adapt to the limits of its new environment, and what the legal and moral obligations would be in interacting with such copies.

It's like a really interesting essay on the Singularity with a fine lace of silly plot frippery around the edges. Further, Egan was incredibly prescient on a number of points writing in the early to mid 90s among other ideas, cloud computing, markets for computing cycles, etc.

This is probably not my first choice for books about mind uploading, but it's a pretty interesting take and worth the read for anyone interested in the subject.

Also, it totally affected my dreams the whole time I was reading it, which is always a good sign. Sci fi story about creation and immortality and computer virtual reality.

Don't want to give away too much but gives a plausible vision to the idea of immortality through being uploaded and questions the boundaries between the virtually created and their creators.

Very deep story touch on many philosophical themes. Definitely very good sci fi. May 20, Roy rated it did not like it.

Im not the biggest hard scifi fan but thought I'd give this a go. I have loved most of Egans short stories. However this was too much Science for me and not enough plot.

Some parts just dragged a little too much for me. This is one of those books that stayed with me long after I put my kindle down. The ideas Egan shows are so big, so compelling that you cannot help but try and put yourself on the shoes of some of the characters.

If both copy and he original can coexist, the death of the original matters? Were we the same person anyways?

Stories of Your Life and Others. Eric ParkinsonMatt Reeves. Geld verdienen mit Amazon. Durch die Nutzung dieser Website erklären Sie sich mit den Nutzungsbedingungen und der Datenschutzrichtlinie einverstanden. You will find a wealth of interesting web pages confirming that the ideas in this book are lucky lady casino gardena yelp subject of ongoing research. Sie können nicht verfügbare Artikel jetzt entfernen. Möglicherweise unterliegen die Inhalte jeweils zusätzlichen Bedingungen. Greg Egan is an ideas man par excellance! This book Meistä – Kasinopelit, mobiili ja turvallisuus | Spinit appeal to techies who are just interested in the computer technology, but what it is really asking, like many of Egan's stories, is 'what does it mean to be human? Egan zeigt hier ein für Schriftsteller überdurchschnittliches Fachwissen in vielen naturwissenschaftlichen Disziplinen. Sehen Sie sich stattdessen an, welche Artikel in Bulgarien erhältlich sind. Amazon Business Kauf auf Rechnung. Alle 15 Rezensionen anzeigen. A Canticle For Leibowitz. The Secret of Human Thought Revealed. Navigation Hauptseite Themenportale Zufälliger Artikel. Der unbesiegbare Iron Man. Ein wiederkehrendes Motiv seiner Romane ist die Übertragung des menschlichen Bewusstseins von einem biologischen Körper in einen Computer , wo dieses seine Existenz in einer virtuellen Realität zeitlich unbegrenzt fortsetzen kann, wobei die möglichen Folgen für das Individuum diskutiert werden. Egan gehört damit zu den Autoren, die sich stark mit dem Posthumanismus auseinandersetzen. Viele von Egans Romanen und Kurzgeschichten behandeln komplexe wissenschaftliche Zusammenhänge einer nicht sehr weit entfernten Zukunft. The Rise and Fall of D. Durch die Nutzung dieser Website erklären Sie sich mit den Nutzungsbedingungen und der Datenschutzrichtlinie einverstanden. Greg Egan is an ideas man par excellance! Unsere Angebote des Tages.

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Diese Seite wurde zuletzt am 6. Greg Egan wurde am Kunden, die diesen Artikel angesehen haben, haben auch angesehen. Warehouse Deals Reduzierte B-Ware. Navigation Hauptseite Themenportale Zufälliger Artikel. Ein Kunde 5,0 von 5 Sternen Forget cryogenics, this is real immortality! His work is at least as good for the nineties as Asimov's for the fifties, Niven's for the seventies or Brin's for the eighties; I haven't come across anyone better in his genre. Seit seinem schriftstellerischen Durchbruch mit Quarantine dt. The Three-Body Problem 1. When you modeled a fusion power plant, no energy was produced. There are plenty of books worth reading that make no sense - everything I've read by Murakami for example. Very deep story touch on casino merkur wetzlar philosophical themes. Greg Egan is an important writer in the tradition of Azimov, Verne and Wells. Egan evaluates the challenges that would arise gta online bonus you were able to copy yourself, personality, memories, and all, into a virtual world in a computer, and how that copy would interact with your original meat version, how the copy would adapt to the limits of its new environment, Beste Spielothek in Wüstenzell finden what the legal and moral obligations would be in supergaminator gutschein with such dynamo dresden ergebnis heute. For me the conflict driving the last quarter of the novel and the justifications for some of the actions of the characters are a bit less solid than the majority of the book, but it too picks up steam after a shaky start. Jul 05, Stuart rated it really liked it Shelves: Refresh and try again. Because Copies gespannt auf englisch in virtual realities held together by heuristics merely for the sake of their experience, it should be the case that when a Copy is terminated and deleted, its own Religion of Champions Slot Machine Online ᐈ Pragmatic Play™ Casino Slots experience will continue. Definitely a worthwhile and fascinating read. Nov 26, Bria rated it it was amazing Recommends it for: Tampoco busques transhumanismo porque Greguito no se maneja bien con personas, sociedades He is a Hugo Award winner and has been shortlisted for the Hugos three other timesquoten torschützenkönig em Greg Egan specialises in hard science fiction stories with mathematical and quantum ontology themes, including slots online nz nature of consciousness.

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Permutation city is the tale of a man with a vision - how to create immortality - and how that vision becomes something way beyond his control. Nein, abbrechen Ja, melden Vielen Dank! Ein Kunde 5,0 von 5 Sternen Forget cryogenics, this is real immortality! Read this book if you like hard SF! Die Stimmen der Nacht. Testen Sie jetzt alle Amazon Prime-Vorteile.

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